| Play from beginning |
| 00:00:00 | Interview with Fred von Lohmann |
| 00:00:05 | The arc of digital technology
has been to empower individuals, |
| 00:00:10 | to empower end-users, fans,
customers, consumers, |
| 00:00:14 | whatever you want to call them,
traditionally in copyright law the targets, |
| 00:00:19 | the people you put pressure on
if you're a copyright owner, |
| 00:00:22 | have been intermediaries,
people who print books, |
| 00:00:25 | people who duplicate video cassettes,
people who make records. |
| 00:00:30 | It used to take a lot of
expensive equipment to do that, |
| 00:00:34 | so as a copyright owner if you
could crack down on the people |
| 00:00:37 | who have the
record-pressing facilities |
| 00:00:40 | you more or less had taken
care of your problem. |
| 00:00:42 | But of course digital technology
is rapidly changing that, |
| 00:00:45 | we live in a world now where each of
us has the ability to make records, |
| 00:00:49 | to press records, to share records,
to transmit records, |
| 00:00:53 | music to everyone in the world. |
| 00:00:57 | And so what you're seeing is increasingly
an effort by copyright owners |
| 00:01:00 | to control the technology
that makes that possible, |
| 00:01:03 | so for example to try to sue
people who make software |
| 00:01:07 | to sue people people
making hardware, |
| 00:01:10 | and ultimately really the focus
turns on the individual themselves, |
| 00:01:14 | So mp3.com, was a
company that was trying |
| 00:01:19 | to let music fans enjoy there own
music wherever they happen to be, |
| 00:01:22 | wherever they where
connected to the internet |
| 00:01:25 | and they were sued
for trying that because |
| 00:01:28 | they didn't get permission from
the major music labels first, |
| 00:01:31 | and they ultimately lost that lawsuit so
that approach, having a central website |
| 00:01:36 | that stores your music on your behalf,
was pretty much put out of business, |
| 00:01:40 | then next came p2p. P2P didn't
rely on a central website, |
| 00:01:45 | instead you had a situation where each of
us stored our music on our own computers |
| 00:01:50 | and transmitted that music
to each other directly. |
| 00:01:53 | there was no longer a website they could
target, instead they targeted the software. |
| 00:01:58 | which was capable of doing that and
companies that made that software |
| 00:02:02 | So you saw lawsuits
against napster, aimster, |
| 00:02:06 | audiogalaxy, grokster, I-Mesh, kazaa,
all of these companies were sued. |
| 00:02:12 | And in the end essentially the
entertainment industry succeeded |
| 00:02:16 | in driving the technology out of
the mainstream commercial field. |
| 00:02:20 | They didn't succeed in shutting
down the technology, |
| 00:02:23 | there's more filesharing going
on today than ever before. |
| 00:02:26 | But they did succeed in
driving the companies out of it. |
| 00:02:29 | There are now very few
people in the business, |
| 00:02:32 | making money
selling that software. |
| 00:02:35 | Turns out there are many people
who make the software as a hobby |
| 00:02:38 | without thought of business and
they continue to make the software available |
| 00:02:42 | and that's what's currently
being used more and more. |
| 00:02:48 | But in the end failing
in their effort |
| 00:02:52 | to stop this ability to share music
among like-minded bands, |
| 00:02:57 | the industry has turned
to suing individuals |
| 00:02:59 | and so the US in 2003
the recording industry |
| 00:03:04 | started suing hundreds
of individuals, |
| 00:03:06 | ultimately tens of
thousands of individuals |
| 00:03:10 | for downloading music
without permission. |
| 00:03:12 | Or to be more specific,
for uploading music, |
| 00:03:15 | for sharing this
music with others. |
| 00:03:17 | The movie industry joined
in and has also sued |
| 00:03:20 | thousands of people in the US they
won't tell us exactly how many, |
| 00:03:24 | but they've confirmed
there are 1000s |
| 00:03:26 | and they continue to sue 100s of
people at a time on a regular basis. |
| 00:03:30 | Most recently the recording industry
has focused on college students |
| 00:03:35 | it has been bringing
lawsuits against |
| 00:03:37 | hundreds of college
students every month. |
| 00:03:40 | So, here we see a shift, |
| 00:03:42 | being unable to change reality
by suing technology companies |
| 00:03:46 | although they have tried
to mould the law |
| 00:03:51 | so that they could use the
law against future innovators. |
| 00:03:54 | They've also extended their legal
campaign against individuals. |
| 00:03:59 | And they're under no illusion that
they'll be able to sue every person |
| 00:04:04 | instead what they've thought
to do is to sue a few people |
| 00:04:08 | punish them severely
enough that they can |
| 00:04:10 | essentially intimidate other
large number of other people. |
| 00:04:14 | It's really as though they
decided to intimidate the village |
| 00:04:17 | they would just chop off
the heads of a few villagers, |
| 00:04:20 | mount those heads on pikes
as a warning to everyone else. |
| 00:04:23 | Well, not only I think that's an immoral
way of trying to control the public, |
| 00:04:29 | but it's also terribly unfair
to the few villagers |
| 00:04:32 | who have had head they're heads taken off
to use as an example against others. |
| 00:04:36 | So you see grandparents and college
students and parents being targeted |
| 00:04:41 | for multi 1000 $ settlements
at a time when we know |
| 00:04:45 | their neighbours,
colleagues and classmates |
| 00:04:48 | are engaged in the same activity
and have gotten away scot free. |
| 00:04:52 | So it both doesn't work - ineffective
it's also very grimly unfair. |
| 00:05:03 | The No Electronic Theft Act
was one of several laws |
| 00:05:07 | that have been passed to extend criminal
liability for copyright infringement. |
| 00:05:12 | Traditionally copyright infringement
has just been a civil matter: |
| 00:05:15 | if a copyright owner catches
you doing something wrong, |
| 00:05:18 | they can sue you and force
you to pay them money. |
| 00:05:21 | Criminal infringement liability, |
| 00:05:24 | the ability to prosecute you
and throw you in jail, |
| 00:05:26 | has been reserved for circumstances
of commercial piracy, |
| 00:05:30 | circumstances where someone
has made 500 copies |
| 00:05:34 | and is selling them on the street as
a competition for the real thing. |
| 00:05:38 | Well, in recent years, copyright owners
have not been satisfied with that, |
| 00:05:42 | they have wanted to reach out
and have criminal recourse |
| 00:05:47 | against people who are engaged
in non-commercial activity, |
| 00:05:50 | and the NET was
the beginning of that |
| 00:05:54 | it was enacted in response
to a guy who had a site, |
| 00:05:59 | a BBS at the time
that allowed people |
| 00:06:01 | to upload and download software,
and he wasn't getting paid |
| 00:06:05 | he wasn't in it for the money,
frankly, it was a hobby for him, |
| 00:06:09 | and ultimately the copyright
owners persuaded congress |
| 00:06:13 | to pass a law that would
basically put him in a position, |
| 00:06:17 | and people like him in a position
where they could actually go to jail. |
| 00:06:20 | And so they created
a model that said: |
| 00:06:23 | "Well... if you share or
make available or copy |
| 00:06:26 | more than a certain number of works,
worth a certain amount of money, |
| 00:06:30 | over a certain period of time,
we can throw you in jail for that. |
| 00:06:33 | And then of course since then there
have been additional amendments |
| 00:06:36 | that have been passed, in an
effort to try to extend that |
| 00:06:39 | to reach p2p filesharing,
people who are not in it for the money, |
| 00:06:43 | nobody on p2p is getting paid
for sharing the music, the movies, |
| 00:06:49 | and so, recently congress amended the law again
to say if you share a film |
| 00:06:55 | that is not yet on DVD, that is
just in theatres but not on DVD, |
| 00:07:00 | doing that, for no commercial
purpose whatsoever, |
| 00:07:03 | is a criminal offence, and you can
potentially be criminally prosecuted |
| 00:07:07 | and potentially jailed
for doing that. |
| 00:07:10 | And so we're seeing this
ongoing one way ratchet, |
| 00:07:13 | that says we need more
and more remedies |
| 00:07:16 | to try and punish people
for making copies, |
| 00:07:20 | even if they're doing it without any
intention of commercial gain. |
| 00:07:24 | The efforts to stem
music fans, movie fans |
| 00:07:28 | making copies of
the things they love, |
| 00:07:31 | those efforts really haven't
been very successful. |
| 00:07:34 | And we see an increasing
number of laws |
| 00:07:37 | that are being pressed that will try and
increase the penalties against these people. |
| 00:07:42 | What I think is ultimately a futile attempt
to essentially hold back the tide. |
| 00:07:48 | We're seeing interestingly
even an resistance |
| 00:07:50 | on the part of law enforcement
to get dragged into this, |
| 00:07:53 | so despite the fact that laws
like the NET have been passed, |
| 00:07:57 | despite the fact that many more
laws are being pushed for |
| 00:08:00 | by the entertainment industries in washington
right now, we're not seeing an eagerness |
| 00:08:05 | on the part of law enforcement to
start throwing teenagers in jail. |
| 00:08:09 | I think even they have begun to appreciate
that this isn't the long term solution |
| 00:08:13 | and that they will end
up looking ridiculous, |
| 00:08:16 | they will end up undermining
their credibility |
| 00:08:18 | if they are perceived as the
unpaid police force of hollywood, |
| 00:08:22 | if they are perceived as taking
the side of clueless moguls |
| 00:08:28 | who don't understand what
the future looks like. |
| 00:08:31 | And I hope that
remains the case. |
| 00:08:34 | The dangerous thing is that increasingly
the entertainment industry |
| 00:08:38 | is trying to connect copyright
infringement with terrorism, |
| 00:08:42 | there's an increasing effort,
you see they're saying: |
| 00:08:45 | oh p2p movie sharing is actually helping
people make unauthorised DVDs |
| 00:08:51 | which are in turn being used to finance
terrorist operations in the middle east. |
| 00:08:57 | And I always worry, that's obviously
very deliberate propaganda effort, |
| 00:09:02 | I don't think anyone has
any concrete evidence |
| 00:09:06 | to show that Al Qaeda depends
on free copies of Spiderman |
| 00:09:10 | to sustain its efforts,
but it is I think a very cynical effort |
| 00:09:15 | on the part of the
movie industry to try |
| 00:09:17 | to force the state, to try to force
law enforcement officials, |
| 00:09:22 | to basically be their unpaid
policemen on this issue. |
